Ancien coach : Benitez > Why Everton Rafa ????

[Emlyn Crazy Horse]

Une question pour les amateurs de "blamerafa" : si par miracle on se qualifie pour la C1 l'an prochain, que RB remplace RH cet été et qu'on remporte la C1 l'an prochain, est-ce que ce sera grâce à RH ?

En clair si RH = C1 => RH > RB ?

C'est donc cela les cours de Mat ?

[rodofromparis]

[Brittanyred]

POLL : Do you want Rafa back as Liverpool manager?

66,6% au moment ou j'écris. Diabolique ce Rafa! C'est la barbichette qui l'a trahi. A force de faire le malin... :lol2:

Personnellement, vu le ressentiment d'une écrasante majorité de fans (disproportionné à mon goût), je n'écarte plus aucune hypothèse, pas même celle là.

Modifié le 22 décembre 2010 par Brittanyred

[Brittanyred]

En clair si RH = C1 => RH > RB ?

C'est donc cela les cours de Mat ?

RB = GH au carré + RH puissance 4 / RE - GS

Euh, ca c'est les cours de Brit (sans alcool)

[Brittanyred]

Il ne ferait pas de miracle, mais je doute qu'il ferait pire. Alors par amour, pourquoi pas...

[Brittanyred]

http://www.goal.com/en/news/10/italy/2010/12/22/2272516/real-madrid-coach-jose-mourinho-slams-inters-rafael-benitez

Mourinho égal à lui-même. Je plains son miroir pour les heures sup'.

[Brittanyred]

source : the guardian

Liverpool fans' Rafael Benítez debate shows Hodgson's lack of friends

As Rafael Benítez's relationship with Inter was going south the Spaniard was on Merseyside, and the number of Liverpool fans that would like him to stay is bad news for his successor

The former Liverpool manager Rafael Benítez was sacked by Internazionale this week while on holiday on Merseyside. Photograph: Hassan Ammar/AP

So much for the theory that Internazionale would hang on to Rafael Benítez at least until they went out of the Champions League. The former Liverpool manager has some expertise in engineering Champions League success from unpromising situations and, as becoming the first team to retain the trophy since the change of format from the European Cup is believed to be Inter's main ambition this season, it had been thought he may have been able to achieve something of note with last season's winners.

On the other hand, perhaps Benítez will be secretly relieved at not having to go through a repeat of last season's final, when Inter take on Bayern Munich when the knockout stage commences in the new year. Anything less than perfection, which was pretty much what José Mourinho's team achieved in Madrid last May – given that Italian fans tend to place a high value on defending securely and striking effectively on the break and would not necessarily expect to see their teams passing people to death like Barcelona – would serve only to underline the fact that Benítez had a hard, maybe impossible, act to follow in succeeding a coach who had delivered a stylish treble.

If Mourinho is a winner, pure and simple, then Benítez is an enigma, considerably more complicated. Over the course of his career he seems to have specialised in winning against the odds, doing the difficult and sometimes the unexpected, while not always making the best of situations that appear to be to his advantage. In his best league season at Liverpool he lost only two games and supervised home and away victories over both Chelsea and Manchester United, a considerable feat, yet had to be content with runners-up spot after drawing on too many occasions against teams such as Stoke, Hull, Fulham and Wigan. While he seemed to be on course for a fairly undistinguished league season at Inter, it is as well to remember that Liverpool were nothing to write home about in the league the season he won the European Cup with them at his first attempt. Everton actually finished above them in 2005, yet when it came to the individual battles in Europe Liverpool always found a way to win, whether it took a phantom goal against Chelsea or a ludicrously unlikely comeback from three goals down in the final.

With that sort of track record one would have thought Inter could have extended Benítez the benefit of the doubt for a little while longer, especially as he has been at odds with the owners of the club – heard that before, anywhere? – and not the fans. Yet Italian clubs generally and Inter in particular are not noted for overindulging coaches, especially foreign ones. Inter have had 13 managers in 13 years since Roy Hodgson's first crack at the job and as soon as one heard Benítez effectively inviting the club to back him or sack him a few days ago it was possible to imagine a swift outcome. What works for a manager at Anfield does not necessarily transfer to San Siro.

From the sound of it Benítez must have known what was coming, otherwise he would not have received the news while on holiday in Liverpool. How depressed do you have to be, Manchester United fans have been queueing up to ask, to go on holiday to Liverpool? Especially when most of Europe's airports are clogged with frustrated travellers who cannot get anywhere, and Crosby was the coldest place in England the other night with temperatures of -17C. Perhaps the guy just needs a rest from football, and thought watching Hodgson's team a couple of times might do the trick. Sorry, I'll give the Mancunian jokes a rest now.

What is even odder than Rafa's choice of getaway location and stranger than some of his pronouncements about milk and sugar mountains in recent months is that a sizeable proportion of Liverpool fans would have him back in a flash. As there is also a sizeable proportion of Liverpool fans who wouldn't, this is not a course of action likely to recommend itself to the club board, yet even so it is fascinating to hear Liverpool fans arguing between themselves over the respective merits and demerits of the present manager and his predecessor.

Broadly speaking, around a third of Liverpool fans (I have not taken a representative sample of Merseyside opinion, I am only reflecting stances taken by the vociferous element on the message boards I have seen) think Benítez still capable of delivering major silverware and never wanted him to leave in the first place. Another third, roughly, were happy to see him go but would have him back straight away because Hodgson is merely a limp imitation of the same thing. The rest do not want Benítez back at any price and, while they grudgingly accept that even he would be better than Hodgson, they want the club to sack the present manager and move on to someone else. Hodgson, it will be seen, has very few friends at the moment. Almost every Liverpool fan wants to see the back of him and ultimately in this situation, even if it is widely suspected that Liverpool fans have been spoiled in the past and have no right to expect success all the time, when the people speak as one the people usually get their own way.

Ladbrokes is offering 12-1 on Benítez to return to Liverpool in the next five years. "If a vacancy occurs at Anfield then Rafa's name would be in the hat," a spokesman said. Perhaps such a quick return would be a bad idea from Benítez's point of view and could only be incredibly messy. The way things are going there will be a vacancy at Liverpool quite soon, though, and were I to have a flutter on who might fill it I would put my money on Owen Coyle. A rank outsider, it could be argued, but an ambitious young manager who is clearly going places. He lacks European experience but Liverpool want someone primarily to put a smile back on everyone's face, not joust with Mourinho. Just a thought.

The obvious English destination for Benítez is Blackburn, since a) they have a vacancy and the owners have indicated they wish to finish fourth or fifth or even better, which is what Benítez is good at. His Champions League experience will prove invaluable once Blackburn force their way into the elite, too. So expect Venky's to be on the phone to Merseyside almost immediately, and then Rafa to be straight on the phone to Sam Allardyce, for confirmation that he may not have been working for the worst owners in the world in Liverpool and Milan after all.

If Benítez fancies working in England again he should award himself a rest and wait for the Manchester City job to come up, which it is likely to do before long. Allardyce should be on the phone to Inter right away, stressing his defensive know-how and reiterating his line about being wasted in England. That's not a joke, actually. Allardyce might find Italian football suits him, and were he to put any kind of overseas achievement on to his CV he would strengthen his case for managing England. Always assuming that vacancy does not arise in the next few weeks due to the FA practically pushing Fabio Capello into Inter's arms. In that event, Benítez for England, anyone? He may not be English but he takes his holidays in Liverpool. Merry Christmas.

-------------

How depressed do you have to be, Manchester United fans have been queueing up to ask, to go on holiday to Liverpool? Especially when most of Europe's airports are clogged with frustrated travellers who cannot get anywhere, and Crosby was the coldest place in England the other night with temperatures of -17C. Perhaps the guy just needs a rest from football, and thought watching Hodgson's team a couple of times might do the trick. :D

[...]

Always assuming that vacancy does not arise in the next few weeks due to the FA practically pushing Fabio Capello into Inter's arms. In that event, Benítez for England, anyone? He may not be English but he takes his holidays in Liverpool. Merry Christmas.

:D

Modifié le 22 décembre 2010 par Brittanyred

[Brittanyred]

http://www.inter.it/aas/news/reader?N=35382&L=en

Pour l'instant, rien de ce côté là.

[Howa]

Rafa chez les Rovers ?

http://www.sofoot.com/benitez-a-blackburn-pour-noel-135828-news.html

Modifié le 22 décembre 2010 par Howa

[Gian]

Rafa chez les Rovers ?

http://www.sofoot.com/benitez-a-blackburn-pour-noel-135828-news.html

Non, Kean est entraineur de Blackburn jusqu'à la fin de la saison

Rovers to stick with Kean

Modifié le 22 décembre 2010 par Gian

[rodofromparis]

Rovers, j'y crois pas trop. Par contre, avec un peu de patience, City pourrait le contacter...

[M'sieur l'marquis]

Rafa de retour ?

Tout dépend des raisons pour lesquelles il a été viré.

Si ces raisons sont encore présentes au club, je ne vois pas ce que nous aurions à y gagner, car nous avons besoin de confiance et de stabilité, pas de conflits supplémentaires.

[rodofromparis]

The Return of Rafa?

by Paul Tomkins at TTT

With Rafa’s apparent departure from Inter Milan, there’s a growing bandwagon calling for his return to the Liverpool hot seat. For some, that time can’t come soon enough. But as ever, it’s a complex issue.

(Note: not my handwriting, honestly…)

Rory Smith’s article in the Telegraph neatly articulates both sides of the argument, and it’s well known which side I fall on. But the vital fact is that there will always be some kind of argument; it seems there’s little middle ground. (Oliver Kay also wrote an excellent piece that appears in the latest edition of the excellent Well Red Magazine, discussing the way the media views both Benítez and Hodgson.)

I find the notion that Benítez is anything less than an excellent manager baffling; always have, always will. That a man who has won every type of trophy available – domestic league title (twice, in a major league, with an outsider), domestic cup, domestic ‘super cup’ (Community Shield), Uefa Cup, European Cup, European Super Cup and now World Club Championship (and also improved Liverpool in the league to levels not seen for two decades) – is somehow an incompetent duffer is just ludicrous. He has his faults, but that is some CV, and all achieved since Roy Hodgson’s last trophy in 2001.

By last season, thanks to the awful owners Hicks and Gillett, Liverpool were selling more players than they were buying. Then there was Chief Executive Christian Purslow, who had no prior experience of running a football club, and whose decisions in the summer left a lot to be desired; the good he did in helping to oust the owners was undone by a short-sighted approach to the footballing side of things.

So it was against this backdrop that Liverpool experienced what was deemed an ‘unacceptable’ season, even though the Reds performed better in terms of winning games (18) and gaining points (63) than in the final year of Houllier’s reign (just 16 wins and 60 points). Indeed, even if you average out Houllier’s final two seasons, it still equals only 62.5, a fraction less than the 2009/10 total of 63. (Rafa’s final two seasons saw an average that was ten points better than Houllier’s full six-season average.) Currently, the Reds are on course for just 49 points, well below last year’s figure.

My view was that Rafa was an exceptional manager whose job at Liverpool had probably become untenable because of the general dysfunctional nature of the club, and because several players wanted him out. Even Mourinho at Chelsea found such a confluence of such factors hard to live with; results started to dip, and he was sent packing.

Had NESV arrived at the end of last season, I think (and it’s just a hunch) that Rafa would still be manager today. I can only guess at how the relationships would have unfolded; I can see similarity in vision (the desire to buy young players on the way up and produce a successful Academy, and the possession of a winning mentality), but also potential clashes, given that few managers are happy to work with a Director of Football. But I think Benítez had a similar approach to Comolli, judging by their track records in the transfer market.

But of course, part of the reason why Benítez became seen as a megalomaniac is because there was a distinct lack of football knowledge at the top of the club: a vacuum of suitable thinking, with clueless owners and rookies running the club; and because, until 2009, he couldn’t make the necessary changes to an under-performing youth system, which was producing tight-knit teams full of endeavour, but no first-team talent. Even now, no youngster released by the club has gone on to become a proper Premier League star, let alone Liverpool standard (although after a few years away, Adam Hammill shows some promise.)

Benítez started to micro-manage everything because that need arose, and because he is a perfectionist (which can be a flaw as well as a virtue). He clashed with Rick Parry and Steve Heighway over the Academy, but to my mind, rightly so; just look at the talent that’s there now, as well as the Barcelona gurus running the institution. This will prove the Spaniard’s greatest legacy for the club, I’m sure. None of this is to say that he didn’t make mistakes, but arguably no more than any other top manager makes.

While I think that NESV would have stuck with Rafa, and given him the support needed to succeed, bringing him back now is a very different issue. It’s one thing to keep someone, because it changes little, and you can finesse things behind the scenes; it’s quite another to sack someone and bring someone else back to a club where, for all his allies, he retains some enemies.

The same old wounds would be opened up, and if the media were rabid in their treatment of him beforehand, you can only imagine how they’d be if one of their darlings was replaced by ‘the nasty foreigner’. (Of course, the club shouldn’t be swayed by the media, but they do add another layer of pressure.)

How Rafa performed at Inter does not alter my perceptions of how he performed at Liverpool. Essentially, with a mountain of injuries (no priests or sugar in sight), he had, after a promising start, experienced something similar to Capello in the summer: one bad month. Prior to the first game against Spurs his team’s style of play was being applauded, and but for a remarkable few minutes from Gareth Bale, a thrashing would have been all that people remembered from that particular game. Instead, Inter hit a wobble.

As it was, with a tired, aging team, he still qualified for the knockout stages of the Champions League for the 7th time in his personal eight appearances in the groups, and won the World Club Championship. The league form was average, but it ignores that the likes of AC Milan and Juventus were injecting a lot of new quality into the ranks, whereas Inter had instead sold Italian football’s best young player (Balotelli) and, with an aged squad, brought in no one of note. (For more on the issue, see this informative article for an interest assessment of his time in Italy.)

I have no doubt that Liverpool traded down in the summer. The biggest crime of Benítez’s replacement has been a failure to understand the approach demanded at one of the biggest clubs in the world; everything he’s done so far would be perfect for Fulham – where he excelled – but, to date, has been a total mismatch for Liverpool.

But he still has the job, and any manager who remains in his position always has the chance to prove his critics wrong. For as long as he remains it is his duty to try and get things right, and that includes the not-so-small task of adapting an approach and playing style that very few fans will ever accept.

(Even Bolton Wanderers fans – starved of success for decades longer than Kopites – were unhappy with such an approach, the entire time Gary Megson was there, even though they kept their head above water. Liverpool fans don’t want needlessly flashy football, but they do want a style they can buy into. On that score, Hodgson has yet to even come close to delivering, as evinced by a negative goal difference. It is his style of play and his comments to the media that have seen him fail to win the hearts and minds. Very quickly, Owen Coyle has done the exact opposite at Bolton, and while that doesn’t mean he could definitely do the same at Liverpool, it shows how a new approach with the same set of players can make all the difference.)

Rafa’s return to his home on Merseyside perhaps puts more pressure on Hodgson, but the current Liverpool manager has had a relatively easy ride from the media so far; if he thinks he’s under pressure, he has yet to face dealing with regular attacks from all the national papers (each one had at least one serial Benítez baiter) and from Sky Sports, whose key presenters were best pals with Rafa’s nemesis, Sam Allardyce, and others in the LMA cartel. Yes, the Kop chanted Kenny Dalglish’s name, but it’s not been non-stop attacks that Hodgson has had to field, despite some pretty big failings on the evidence so far. (Of course, I’d much rather see a Liverpool manager with the media on his side, but not to excuse mediocrity and a failure to grasp what’s required, and imply that Liverpool fans are daft as a result.)

It shows how much the area means to the Spaniard; his intention was always to return to the Wirral. To quote Anfield Road writer Andrew Heaton: “I also think Rafa’s ‘weakness’ of ‘fighting for what you believe in’ was what the unbreakable bond with the city and supporters was forged upon”.

Again, this is where Hodgson has fallen short, perhaps by trying to be too diplomatic, so as to not upset anyone within the game (including the FA, whom he had hoped would be his employers this summer, with the position of England manager apparently still his main dream).

But you only have to look at how ‘diplomatic’ Alex Ferguson is to anyone who criticises either him or his club to see how standing up for your club (and by proxy, its fans) is essential. Perhaps Benítez picked too many fights, but it’s better than having no fight at all. He fought for the fans, and most appreciate that. Ferguson, Mourinho, Benítez and even Wenger often get into verbal spats with adversaries because they share a certain mentality. They don’t get into them in order to get an historic draw, either.

In the meantime, Roy Hodgson remains in charge, and I don’t see that changing before the summer at the earliest. He deserves to be backed in the transfer market in the way that any other manager does, but Damien Comolli must make sure that, unlike the raft of older players brought in during the summer (most of whom were average at best, and have contributed to a poor season), the signings must be flexible enough to serve the club beyond Hodgson’s tenure.

And then, in the summer, NESV will be able to sit down and make an informed decision about how Hodgson performed based on the entire year, and take a good look at the viable alternatives. I very much doubt that Benítez’s name will be on the list of potential candidates, should a new manager be sought – but that doesn’t mean his time definitely won’t come again. In football, you never know.

[Candy]

Rafa de retour ?

Tout dépend des raisons pour lesquelles il a été viré.

Si ces raisons sont encore présentes au club, je ne vois pas ce que nous aurions à y gagner, car nous avons besoin de confiance et de stabilité, pas de conflits supplémentaires.

Je pense qu'une des raisons principales du "départ" de Rafa est Christian Purslow. Cécile étant parti (ou sur le point de l'être), Rafa est un candidat plus que sérieux.

De plus, Rafa connait la majorité des joueurs (et la réciproque est vraie). Il n'y aurait, à priori, pas trop de difficultés à transmettre son message tactique. Je pense que Rafa pourrait être une bonne solution (en tout cas jusqu'à la fin de la saison).

Après, il faut voir si les quelques joueurs qui souhaitaient son départ accepteraient que Bénitez revienne.

Mais bon, je me fais du mal, j'ai de sérieux doutes qu'il revienne......

(Ceci dit, si Rafa revient, il risque de revenir tel le Messie qui revient en terre promise. Si Rafa revient, j'irai à Liverpool à pied pour son premier match à Anfield!)

Modifié le 23 décembre 2010 par Candy

[scouser]

Je pense qu'une des raisons principales du "départ" de Rafa est Christian Purslow. Cécile étant parti (ou sur le point de l'être), Rafa est un candidat plus que sérieux.

De plus, Rafa connait la majorité des joueurs (et la réciproque est vraie). Il n'y aurait, à priori, pas trop de difficultés à transmettre son message tactique. Je pense que Rafa pourrait être une bonne solution (en tout cas jusqu'à la fin de la saison).

Après, il faut voir si les quelques joueurs qui souhaitaient son départ accepteraient que Bénitez revienne.

Mais bon, je me fais du mal, j'ai de sérieux doutes qu'il revienne......

(Ceci dit, si Rafa revient, il risque de revenir tel le Messie qui revient en terre promise. Si Rafa revient, j'irai à Liverpool à pied pour son premier match à Anfield!)

J'ai de grosses craintes. Il doit forcément y avoir des mecs qui voulaient son départ, et le voir revenir peut totalement défoncer le vestiaire.

On sait tous que Gerrard a plus de respect pour Houllier que pour Rafa (à mon avis, plus dû au fait que c'est Houllier qui l'a lancé, et qu'il avait l'air d'un magicien quand il l'a guéri de ses blessures en lui arrachant des dents...), et j'ai peur qu'en faisant revenir l'espagnol, des tensions intestines refassent surface.

Je me répète, le neuf avec le vieux, ca marche très rarement...

[Mr All Sunday]

De plus, Rafa connait la majorité des joueurs (et la réciproque est vraie). Il n'y aurait, à priori, pas trop de difficultés à transmettre son message tactique. Je pense que Rafa pourrait être une bonne solution (en tout cas jusqu'à la fin de la saison)

Le même message qui ne passé plus la saison dernière ?

Pour moi Rafa, tout Rafa qu'il est, a fait son temps chez nous, perso je suis contre son retour.

[Gian]

Breaking News! : Inter Milan have confirmed the sacking of Rafa Benitez from his post as manager

Skysports

Modifié le 23 décembre 2010 par Gian

[rikku]

on verra si son remplacant fera mieux ...

[rodofromparis]

on verra si son remplacant fera mieux ...

Il le fera: les joueurs reviennent de blessure...

[Candy]

J'ai de grosses craintes. Il doit forcément y avoir des mecs qui voulaient son départ, et le voir revenir peut totalement défoncer le vestiaire.

On sait tous que Gerrard a plus de respect pour Houllier que pour Rafa (à mon avis, plus dû au fait que c'est Houllier qui l'a lancé, et qu'il avait l'air d'un magicien quand il l'a guéri de ses blessures en lui arrachant des dents...), et j'ai peur qu'en faisant revenir l'espagnol, des tensions intestines refassent surface.

Je me répète, le neuf avec le vieux, ca marche très rarement...

Le même message qui ne passé plus la saison dernière ?

Pour moi Rafa, tout Rafa qu'il est, a fait son temps chez nous, perso je suis contre son retour.

Si Rafa devait revenir, c'est clair qu'il viendrait avec ses conditions. Maintenant, beaucoup de fans (dont certains sur ce forum) se sont rendu compte de ce qu'ils avaient perdu avec la départ de Rafa (et surtout avec le recrutement d'Hodgson).

Si, nous les supporters, on s'est rendu compte de cela, les joueurs n'ont-ils pas, eux aussi, révisé leurs jugements? Un gars comme Gerrard est-il vraiment mieux avec Hodgson? Sera-t-il mieux avec un autre manager?

Maintenant, même si je reste un pro-Bénitez, je trouverais cela très surprenant qu'il revienne à la tête de l'équipe, surtout seulement six mois après son départ. C'est pour cela que je ne pense pas prendre trop de risques quand je dis que j'irai à Liverpool à pied si Rafa revenait comme manager de Liverpool.

[Chavierinho]

Je me répète, le neuf avec le vieux, ca marche très rarement...

C'est comme ressortir avec une ex... On se rappelle très vite pourquoi on l'a largué...

Même si dans notre cas la nouvelle est vraiment pas jolie...

Modifié le 23 décembre 2010 par Chavierinho

[Bugsy]

Mais qui sait si Rafa veut revenir? surtout aussi rapidement? Peut-être qu'il prendra une année sabbatique, le mec s'est beaucoup dépensé, surtout mentalement, ces deux dernières saisons, il doit être épuisé!

[fk_lfc]

SI Benitez revient, il lancerai à cout sur Jova, vu que c'est lui qu'il a recuperer avant son départ.

L'année derniere, il avait d'avantage confiance en Agger qu'en Skrtel.

F.Aurelio à gauche ?

Beaucoup d'hypotheses qui dépendent du retour de Francois Holland.

Concentrons-nous sur le match de Blackpool !!

[matlehulk]

Je ne souhaite pas voir Benitez revenir à Liverpool...avant cet été.

Que Henry & Cie mettent leur plan en place, choisissent un excellent entraîneur avec un projet sur la durée et que cela soit fait tranquillement (pour cet été). Si Rafa correspond, et qu'il trouve un bon deal dans les conditions de travail, pourquoi pas. Si un autre bon entraîneur peut arriver cet été, pourquoi pas non plus. Si RH fait une superbe moitié de saison...pourquoi pas non plus (mais ça m'étonnerait vraiment).

Je n'irai pas à pied, mais si tu as soif en arrivant, je te paierai un verre volontiers Candy

[Tunisian Scouser]

Un "fan" de Liverpool m'a insulté sur facebook car j'ai dit que Rafa est très aimé par les fans à Liverpool et qu'il est même vénéré encore... il m'a insulté pour ça et m'a dit que c'est pas le cas, qu'il va très souvent voir les matchs à Anfield et que Rafa est détesté là bas et que je suis pas un vrai fan parce que je ne vais pas à Anfield...